Right after I interviewed John Airo he started teling me about all the guys he works with who have Chicago flag tattoos. “This one guy has a huge chest piece, I’ll have to tell him about your site.” He did, and a few days ago I interviewed Jose Ramirez out in front of the recently renovated Logan Theatre.

CFT: So, hi! Jose—what’s your last name?

Jose: Ramirez. It’s the same last name as the serial killer, Richard Ramirez? The Night Stalker. Which is actually my real brother’s name.

CFT: Ok.

Jose: My oldest brother is Richard Ramirez.

CFT: I’m sure there are other, more upstanding Ramirezes.

Jose: Yeah, but that’s how people remember my name.

CFT: Ok.

Jose: The best.

CFT: I guess it is now fixed in my memory.

Jose: It sticks out, yeah.

CFT: So what’s your story, and how does that lead to your Chicago flag tattoo story?

Jose: My Chicago flag tattoo—I got it in 2008, at the moment, I was actually living out of state in Tennessee. In just this little rinkydink tattoo shop. I paid the guy 200 bucks and he slapped on the flag on me. He had no idea what it was, but I drew it up—I freehanded it for him and I told him “I want this, on my chest” and it was my very first tattoo.

CFT: Wow.

Jose: So yeah, 200 bucks. It was the best 200 bucks I ever spent in my life.

CFT: So were you born in Chicago?

Jose: Yeah—born and raised here in Chicago, I was born in Humboldt Park . Norwegian American hospital—still standing, still a crap-hole of a hospital, too. If you had a choice, don’t ever go there. But I was born there, raised in that area too, and raised in Logan Square, all the way til I was about 23 years old. That’s when I moved to Tennessee. Stayed out there for about 5 years, and I moved back here up to Chicago back in 2010, and since then, I’ve accumulated a few more tattoos. But, that was my very first tattoo and it’s my pride and joy.

CFT: Were you homesick? What were you thinking, down there in Tennessee?

Jose: Definitely, most definitely. It was a total different environment, where I was living. I wasn’t even in Nashville, I was an hour south of Nashville, on a farm. My parents, they retired and bought a farm down there, and I was doing jack squat up here, so I was like “oh, I’m gonna give that a try.” So I gave it a try, but goddammit, every day that I lived down there, I was just homesick every single day. So this was 1) to try to calm my homesickness 2) you know, memory for Chicago but 3) so the pride I have for my city that I was born and raised in and basically shaped me to be the person that I am—I wanted to thank the city and commemorate it through pain. And my very first tattoo was a Chicago flag on my entire chest.

CFT: Yeah, it’s huge.

Jose: It was 8 hours. The guy didn’t even do it in one sitting. He was like, “You gotta come back every Sunday, man. I’m not even open on Sundays, but I’ll open up for you.” So every Sunday, I’d do a couple of hours. And I think it was a little bit over 8 hours worth of work. It was my first tattoo, and one that I was happy to give up that pain for my city that I love.

CFT: And the laurels?

Jose: On top of my flag I have a laurel wreath. It’s the logo for the Fred Perry clothing brand that does the polos and stuff. They started off in the ’60s, or actually earlier than that, and they were designing tennis clothes for the British tennis player Fred Perry. And it’s a subculture brand now. Rude boys, and the mods, and the skinheads in the 70s in England took it over as their style. And it’s still being used to this day, by a little bit different folks now, but the core people that really do wear it are still people from that type of subculture. I myself identified as a skinhead. [Jose’s girlfriend interjects: “Not racist!”] Definitely, not racist! Anti-racist skinhead, for sure. And it’s something that I’m proud of, so those two things, the Chicago flag and the symbol of the laurel wreathes, the proud skinhead symbol, mixing them both together, two of my beloved things in my life. My subculture and my city, that’ll always be together.

CFT: So you’ve been back for 3 years, has it lived up to…

Jose: Oh yeah, for sure.

CFT: It’d be a shame if you came back, and…

Jose: Oh yeah, it has changed, for sure, like for example where we’re standing right now.

CFT: Where we’re standing is in front of the Logan Theatre, and you were saying earlier that…

Jose: Oh yeah, in the ’80s & ’90s, I grew up coming here, it was 2 bucks to watch a movie that had come out, 3, 4 months ago, that all the other theatres aren’t showing, but Logan theatre was able to get their hands on. You know, a movie that’s past its time already in the regular theatre, so they showed it for 2 bucks. They had nasty stale popcorn for 50 cents, and it was awesome. It was great. It stunk, the floors were sticky permanently, the carpet was horrible and stained, and there was scary sketchy bums sleeping in there, kicking around 40 ounce bottles. And I loved it. It was great. I watched Hulk Hogan movies here when I was a kid, and it was awesome. And now—it’s like the place to be now. They hold, like, openings here and premieres here for movies. And it’s all these people that are coming here that just moved to the neighborhood. This neighborhood has changed so much, it’s not even funny. It’s gotten gentrified, and it’s gotten—aw man, this used to be like Skid Row when I was a kid. I couldn’t have come down here by myself. At least—at nighttime, I couldn’t come down here. But now, it’s totally different. And yeah—it has changed, but I still got love for my city. I don’t care how much outsiders have come and changed it or have evolved it to their style. I don’t care—it’s still my city, I’ll still fight for it tooth and nail, no matter what.

I was at Binny’s buying just-a-little-too-much regional craft beer, as you do, when I saw Curly and her obviously new Chicago flag tattoo. As soon as she was done asking an employee her questions about regional craft beer, I jumped in and interviewed her right in the middle of the beer aisle. Where better?

CFT: This is a brand-fresh-new tattoo.

Curly: Fresh! I just it last Wednesday, so just a few days old. I’m a transplant, I’m not from here, but I’m planning on getting two flag tattoos, for where I grew up and where I live now. It’s just a very significant part of my life. In mine, there’s a banner that says Kedzie on it, and that is my dog’s name. It’s my first dog that I’ve had myself and it’s a kind of a very bold move into adulthood that I have a pet to take care of. And I got her here, so that is the meaning.

CFT: And do you live on Kedzie?

Curly: I live really close to Kedzie. I just a street over.

CFT: Some boring name…

Curly: Yeah, I’m not going to name my dog Albany, that’s weird. But actually a friend of mine from the area as well suggested renaming her Kedzie. Because I rescued her and the name she came with was not good. We call her “Keds” for short.

CFT: How long have you been in Chicago?

Curly: About six years.

CFT: And it feels like home now?

Curly: It does. It’s been the one place that I can see myself staying throughout the rest of my life, if I can help that.

CFT: Where’d you get it done?

Curly: I got it from Allie Sider, he works out of Tatu Tattoo and Code of Conduct in the South Loop. But I went to Tatu in Wicker Park for it. He’s done a bunch of my other stuff. He actually did a flag tattoo earlier that day when I came in that he was telling us about. It’s very popular! And usually done well. So that’s good. It’s good to see that. And I think Chicago is one of the only cities where the flag is very prevalent. You can walk outside and you see a flag around. I don’t think that that’s the case really anywhere else. Because our flag is just so awesome.

We were headed back to our car after the nighttime Rave Run 5K downtown and I spotted those distinctive stars on the back of another runner’s arm in front of me. It was late, I was tired, he had kids with him, and I was shy, so I didn’t ask for a full interview. But I got a couple of photos and a first name. Thanks, George, and rock on with your Chicago flag tattoo.

C2E2 is a huge comics and entertainment expo in downtown Chicago and my wife Erica was working the I Want to Draw a Cat For You booth all three days. She came home Friday night saying, “I saw a lot of Chicago flag tattoos today”. So Saturday when I visited the expo I was paying less attention to the hundreds of robots, aliens, and monsters than I was to scanning exposed skin for Chicago flags. I didn’t find a single one and headed back to Artists’ Alley to see my friends. Nearly back to their booth, a man with an impressive beard, who turned out to be Luke Stokes, said, “Nice tattoo - he’s got one of those” and pointed to his booth companion, John Airo. John rolled up his sleeve and showed me a very distinctive, bold and battered version of the Chicago flag, of his own design. John and Luke collaborate on a new comic book, CPD 70, about the Chicago Police Department in 1970. John’s personal art work is filled with versions of the Chicago flag and it obviously occupies a prominent place in his artistic mind.

CFT: What’s your Chicago flag tattoo story?

John: Well, I’ve been doing a lot of Chicago flag-themed artwork and I think it all stems from being born here, being a Chicagoan, loving and hating it. As a community, as a people, it’s home, it’s the best place ever. But our leaders have failed us and continue to fail us. I never thought it could get worse than Daley and I think it did. We’re beat-up and weathered but we’re still together. A car breaks down in the street, people get out and help each other. Someone needs something and everyone’s there, except the cops, except the government. They’re hating on teachers, they’re… To me it’s just surviving, we’re surviving because we’re Chicago. The people that wave the flags above their buildings, they’re not Chicago, it’s us.

I guess that’s what it is to me. I’m just proud, I’m proud to be here. I’m not going anywhere, because I’ve made it this far and I’m going to keep going. It’s taken on every part of my life. I’m an artist as a job, that’s what I do, and the flag, for me, it’s relevant. I think what you do is great, that’s fantastic.

CFT: Oh, thanks.

John: Having a site dedicated to that, it’s brilliant. [Indicating my own flag tattoo] It’s good, we could be in another country and I’d be like, “Alright, there’s someone I can count on.” Just seeing that.

CFT: That’s one of my questions: when people see yours do they know what it is?

John: Chicagoans do. Absolutely. And that’s the thing I like about the flag is that it’s not that known outside of Chicago. It’s not a touristy image of Chicago. It’s a Chicagoan image of Chicago. If I got the skyline, if I got the Sears Tower or the Picasso or the Bean or anything, everyone in the world would know that. People that know the flag, they’re us. And that’s what’s cool. You go out of the city and people ask. I was in Austin recently and I was in Mexico this year and people ask. But when people do know it they’re like, “where you from?” because they’re either residents now or recently residents.

CFT: A friend of mine recently moved to LA and he’s had people had people be like, “hey I’m from Chicago, too!”

John: Yeah, it’s not everybody, it’s our insider thing. That’s why you’re here because we saw that [indicates my tattoo].

CFT: So you’ve lived in the city your whole life?

John: Born here, live here now. When I younger my family moved… yeah, basically. Born here, back here. Junior high, High school, my family moved. But as soon as I graduated I came running back. This is home, this is all I know.

CFT: And where’d you get it done?

John: I got it done at Family Tattoo. Gilly Smash did it, he’s a good friend of mine. It’s a nasty looking, beat-up flag and I figured he’s one of those survivor guys, one of those awesome dudes. I’m like, he’s the guy for it. I wanted someone that I was friends with to do it, too.

CFT: Mine, I was trying to get it nice and clean, but I got some scarring there, but I decided, that’s OK.

John: Absolutely. That’s what it is. Yeah, I’m never going to put sunscreen on it or anything. This is two years old and I’m hoping it just gets more and more worn. You don’t want all your stuff to go bad, but that’s the whole point, is it can’t, it can’t go bad.

John Zuiker has already been a friend to the site, as he’s the one who introduced me to Molly and Zoelle Fishman and Brad Lash. And then a couple of weeks ago I got a message from John: “Hey buddy! Hope all is well. Wanted to let you know I got my Chicago flag tattoo finished!” John is living in Los Angeles now but we managed to meet up on Skype so I could see his new tattoo and interview him about it.

CFT: That’s large and in charge.

John: It is hard to miss.

CFT: So what’s your Chicago tattoo story?

John: Well, I’ve always wanted to get a Chicago tattoo, once I started getting tattoos. I moved to New York two years ago and then moved from New York to LA. And when I decided to move to LA I kind of knew that I was going to stay here for a really long time and wasn’t going to go back to Chicago. So I wanted to have a little Chicago with me and represent out west. So I decided I really wanted to get a Chicago flag tattoo. And then I started thinking, what kind of Chicago flag tattoo do I want to get?

I’d seen people have the bands; I saw one that was cool, it was the State of Illinois with the Chicago flag inside of it, I thought that was cool. But my biggest thing was I was worried that there’s so much white in the flag, and you can’t tattoo white. So how can I get around that? Maybe if I did the Chicago flag as something. If I combined it, that way I could be more representational of the Chicago flag and not as literal. And then I don’t have to worry about that. And I’ve always admired religious iconography. And that’s also a very traditional subject to get tattooed.

But I’ve never been very religious, so I would never just get something religious because I’m not religious. But I love the artwork and I love the style of it. So I was kind of thinking, you know what would be really cool would be if I did a Sacred Heart but as the Chicago flag. Instead of the crown of thorns I could do the stars, the heart could be blue and a little bit of white, and then some flames. When I went to the tattoo artist I was talking about that and I was like, maybe some of the flames could be shaped like some of the buildings, maybe the flames could be like the John Hancock and the Sears Tower. And he was like, “I don’t know if that would read, but let’s put the skyline in there.” And I was like, “OK!” And what’s great is the the scale of it—initially I was like a little [skeptical sound] because the flames are so big, but I like it because it balances out, it takes a little bit more away from the heart and it’s a happy medium between the religious iconography and the flag. It’s got the little Chicago skyline in it, so that’s cool.

CFT: I might be making this up, but I think on some Sacred Hearts there’s the crown of thorns are around the heart, but there’s also a regular kingly crown on top, so the skyline is sort of the crown.

John: Yeah, yeah, kind of. I didn’t think about that, but yes, that’s totally true.

CFT: You meant to do that all along.

John: I meant to do that all along.

CFT: So here’s a big important question: did you get that done out there?

John: I did. All of my tattoos have been done in Chicago, except for this one. My regular tattoo guy is Jason Longtin who tattoos out of Deluxe Tattoo on Irving Park. My first two tattoos were by other people, but he’s done everything else since. And so I was really nervous, and I was like, I don’t know, I kind of want to get one in LA because I feel like I’m setting down roots here. So I thought it would be a really good first tattoo in LA, because I get the LA artist with the Chicago content. I don’t know. It was an interesting decision, because it is, it’s the only tattoo I have that was not done in Chicago.

The guy that did it, it’s this guy Chris Paez. I was really happy about the shop that I went to. Because, you know, I was super nervous about going to a new shop and going to a new artist. The shop that he owns is called The Dolarosa and I found it because I was having dinner with a friend next door. They have a bunch of t-shirts in the window and we stopped in to look at the t-shirts and I was like, “oh, this is a tattoo shop.” I started looking at all their books and every single artist was amazing. It was really crazy. It was hard to choose, but I think I chose wisely.

CFT: I think so too. I’m really blown away by that tattoo. So, you say you moved to New York, you moved to LA, are you from Chicago originally?

John: I grew up in Evanston.

CFT: That counts.

John: It’s pretty much Chicago. It produces a lot of people who say they’re from Chicago.

CFT: The Chicago Transit Authority goes there, so it counts.

John: It does. I grew up in Evanston and then I went to undergrad at Columbia downtown and that’s when I moved to Chicago. And then I lived in Chicago for about seven years before I went to grad school.

CFT: This tattoo is pretty new, but it’s pretty visible-out there in LA does anybody have any idea what it is, do you get questions about it? Your other forearm, the Picasso), that’s very recognizable.

John: I’ve had a couple of people that were from Chicago recognize it, and that’s really cool because then that opened up a fun way to connect with people. And then someone was, “Oh, is that like a policeman’s thing?” And I said, “No, it’s the flag from Chicago.” And they said, “Oh, I feel like I’ve seen policemen wearing it, though.” And it was something that they’d seen in movies or cop shows, where the cops have it on their arms or whatever. So they didn’t know it was the Chicago flag, but they had recognized the iconography of it.

But the skyline kind of helps, because it is sort of recognizably the Chicago skyline. But the flag part, that was the one weird conversation where I said, “It’s kind of a policeman thing, but not really.”

CFT: I’ve heard that from people with Chicago flag tattoos in Chicago, but that’s the first time I’ve heard from someone outside the city. I guess there are a bunch of cop shows set in Chicago.

John: And like The Fugitive was shot there. There’s lots of movies that take place in Chicago. But that was just so funny.

CFT: Which that makes me realize, somewhere out there in LA there’s a warehouse with an aisle full of Chicago cop uniforms.

John: Sure, I’m sure.

CFT: That’s a freaky thought.

John: And when they shoot with cars they usually make the graphics. They have police cruisers and they make the graphics to be whatever city they’re in. But all the uniforms and stuff, I’m sure there’s a couple warehouses with aisles of that.

I’m happy to say that my little project is growing as friends of friends are starting to say, “I know a friend of a friend who you need to interview.” Through just such a friend-of-a-cousin-of-a-hair-dresser style relationship, I was introduced to Laura Cherry who was kind enough to meet up with me in a coffee shop in Wicker Park so I could get these photos and interview.

CFT: Tell me about your Chicago Flag Tattoo.

Laura: Alright, one drunken night, that’s how all stories start, I was walking on the street, me and my best friend, who was living in New York at the time. We were talking about Chicago and how much we love it, and I’m like “You know what I would love, like, a tattoo that symbolizes Chicago for what it is.” And she and I are both foodies, so we thought-“Pizza!” We both love pizza, let’s get a pizza tattoo. And I wanted this big gooey Giordano’s stuffed kind of pizza, and I went to go get it drawn up a few months later. It became a better idea as it went on, and I went to go get it drawn up, and they drew it up for me. When the artist brought it out, I thought to myself, “That is not going on my body.” It looked—what I had in my head and how it looked—two totally different things.

CFT: Ok

Laura: So, I’m sitting there, and I was really psyched to be getting my tattoo, and then I’m thinking “well, I’m not gonna get it, because I don’t want this on my body. So, we’re just sitting there, and I looked up at the Chicago Flag. And thought “I love the Chicago flag, I love pizza, let’s do something like that.” So I stepped away that evening, and came up with this idea of somehow drawing the flag into a piece of Chicago pizza. Or a slice of pizza, or whatever it was. And that’s how the idea came about.

CFT: Awesome.

Laura: I went and got it designed, and put on.

CFT: So that first design—was it just too realistic, a gooey piece of deep dish?

Laura: Yeah! It kinda didn’t really look that realistic, and I’m thinking “this is going to be drawn on” and people are really going to look at me and go “Really? Out of all the tattoos, that’s what you picked?”

CFT: Is that your first tattoo?

Laura: It is my first tattoo, and my only tattoo.

CFT: So a big gooey piece of pizza would be a statement.

Laura: Yes.

CFT: So there’s a whole bunch of questions here. Number one of which is: Deep Dish Pizza? Are you a fan of Chicago-style?

Laura: I’m a big fan, even. You know I was raised on this meal on a pizza, and that’s what a lot of people describe it as. It’s a big hearty meal on a slice of pizza, and I love it. Either you love it or hate it, I feel like. Anthony Bourdain, No Reservations, hates Chicago pizza, and that always breaks my heart a little bit. Because I’m like “Really?” I mean, that’s Chicago, but it’s not for everyone.

CFT: It is not for everyone.

Laura: Yeah.

CFT: I love nearly everything about Chicago…

Laura: Yes.

CFT: But…

Laura: Deep dish pizza?

CFT: Deep dish pizza is not…I’m a little lactose intolerant. Which makes it a dangerous meal. But awesome! Where did you get it done? Who was the artist?

Laura: Speakeasy Tattoo, Jen Trock.

CFT: Oh, she’s awesome.

Laura: From word of mouth, friends who have gotten tattoos said “this girl specializes in Chicago tattoos.” So we had to go to her.

CFT: Ok, yeah.

Laura: So I went to her, and she drew it up, and voila!

CFT: Yeah. Awesome. Now, it’s on your side, So people don’t see it a lot. When people see it, do they know what it is?

Laura: Yes and No. People usually ask beforehand A) do you have any tattoos and B) What is it of? And I have entitled it “a Chicago pizza.” So when I show it to them, they kind of just look at it. So, the other question I now ask is “Have you seen the Chicago flag?”

CFT: Ok

Laura: And that is either yes or no, and if it’s no, then they have no idea, and they just look at it, and they’re like “I don’t know what that is.” But if they have, they’re like “Oh, that’s pretty cool.”

CFT: That’s awesome. So are you a life-long Chicagoan?

Laura: I am. Born and raised. The only time I went away was for school in Peoria, and I came home every chance I got. I felt like I was just missing out on things. I’ve visited other cities, and while they’re great, I would never see myself leaving Chicago.

CFT: Anything else you want to tell me? About you or the tattoo?

Laura: No, it’s a pretty simple tattoo.

CFT: It is, but it’s a great tattoo.

Laura: Yeah. I designed it myself, although people have said, like, “Oh, I’ve seen it before.” I’m like, “Okay.” Maybe I’m not as original as I thought.

CFT: “Maybe you saw me.”

Laura: Yeah! Like, maybe you saw me somewhere.

When I came to Chicago 14 years ago to do improv, Tim Chidester was already a mainstay in the community, and over the years his stature has only grown. He always seems to be all over the city, but I most associate him with the long-running (and very obscene) Hot Karl at ComedySportz Chicago. I managed to track Tim down at the Annoyance Theatre before a performance of TimProv (an improv group composed entirely of guys named “Tim”).

CFT: What’s your Chicago flag story?

Tim: I got it because I moved here when I was 18 in 1987 and I got it the day of my 25th anniversary of being a Chicagoan. I’d been thinking about it for a while, I have other tattoos, but I really love this town and I consider myself a pretty true blue Chicagoan now and I thought it was a great way to mark the event.

CFT: Did you move here to do improv?

Tim: Yes. I knew this was the place to come because I was one of those improv nerds in high school. I knew my history of Saturday Night Live and stuff and so I knew Chicago and Second City was the place to come if you wanted to do it. I had offers to go to other colleges in Michigan but I wanted to get out and so I came here.

CFT: You went to college here?

Tim: I went to Roosevelt University. Class of ‘91. I came here and I met some Second City folks who taught there and that’s how I moved up the ranks. I was out of it for a while but actually my girlfriend worked with Mark Sutton, Mick Napier at Mrs. Levy’s Deli and she told me about them. I knew these guys, the Annoyance, when they were on Broadway. I took classes and then a couple people told us about iO and that’s how it grew from there.

CFT: You have a pretty traditional stars and the stripes. One of the things we’ve been seeing on the site is people having variations.

Tim: The only thing is little jagged ends that would be…

CFT: Is that any symbolism or is that just a cool design?

Tim: It’s 25 years so it’s the kind of thing, it’s not the age it’s the mileage, a little wear and tear on there. I liked it for that fact. This flag’s seen some shit.

CFT: All right. How long have you had it now?

Tim: Just since this past August, so not that long. I got it on August 31st. I made an appointment so I could get it that afternoon, so I had it that afternoon.

CFT: Do people know what it is?

Tim: Yes. They do know why I have it because they ask me.

CFT: Yours is kind of visible.

Tim: They ask me why I got it and I tell them why, I tell them the reason.

CFT: Do people go, ‘Oh, Chicago flag.’ Why?

Tim: They know it’s the Chicago flag. Even people out of state know what it is surprisingly. It’s a very recognizable flag. I’ve had a couple questions when I’ve been on gigs out of state where they’re like, ‘What is that?’ This is the only tattoo I have out of three that anybody can see so they always ask me about it.

CFT: Where did you get it done?

Tim: Mario Desa at Chicago Tattoo on Belmont. That’s where I got all of mine; like I said, one of three. I got them all there.

CFT: Awesome. Thanks a lot.

At the same lunch where I had such a long chat with Molly and Zoelle Fishman, I also talked to their cousin Brad Lash about his Chicago Flag tattoo and I learned how to remember what all the points on the stars represent.

CFT: Brad! Tell about your tattoo.

Brad: My tattoo is a little more basic flag. It’s got the stripes on the side instead of the top. And it’s always an idea that I was playing with when I was a kid in the suburbs. For college I didn’t go too terribly far away, I was just over the border at Purdue. Nobody in West Lafayette, Indiana knew where Libertyville was, so I always said I was from Chicago. I didn’t really realize that that entailed until I actually moved into the city. I’ve been in the city for seven or eight years now, various places around the North and Northwest side. The idea of wanting a Chicago Flag tattoo was something that had been percolating for a long time, but I felt like I really needed to actually live in the city for a while to earn it.

And so I eventually did and I feel like even though I’m a suburban kid, coming down to the city was always something special. The city always represented this whole realm of possibilities for me, especially being from a family that didn’t travel much. When we went somewhere, we went downtown. That was our tourism. It’s always been a place to go to do something cool, because nothing cool happens in the suburbs. We used to joke around in high school and call our town “Liberty Thrill”. And we called Vernon Hills “Vernon Hill” because there was only one hill and it was the man-made sled hill. So there really wasn’t a whole lot going on. Let’s face it, we’re in the flattest part of the country but we’ve got suburbs named “Hills” and “Heights” all over the place. And “Mount”, Mount Prospect, thousands of miles from the nearest thing that could be considered a mountain. Anyway, I digress.

Not only did I feel like I earned the tattoo by living in the city, but also by visiting a lot of other cities in the United States and Canada—which, once again, as a kid who never really got the opportunity to travel much, I went on a lot of road trips in college and since and I’ve been to a pretty large chunk of the country and I’ve never been to a city that I liked more than Chicago. And maybe it’s homer bias, but New York’s too big and busy and LA is too dirty and Seattle’s too wet and Portland’s too weird. And I like all those places, but none of them are home and none of them is Chicago.

Which leads to, it’s really not much of a tattoo but I’d like at some point to get the rest of the arm finished and I’m still undecided, do I get other Chicago symbolism, or do I go with other places that I’ve visited and enjoy and do sort of a travel collage where home is still at the base.

Zoelle: That’s an interesting idea, but you’d always have to add onto that, because you’re never going to stop traveling.

Brad: I know, I know. And I’ve already got some ideas and I think it’d only be for really special places, like Ireland or Hawaii.

CFT: Was there any event or set of checklist items that made you feel like you’d earned a Chicago tattoo, or just sort of time and settling in and “yes, this is home”.

Brad: I think just time and settling in. Involvement in the community a little bit, and working for a non-profit organization that focusses on making Chicago a better place. And being involved in the music scene. And running this Chicago Hot Dog Tour has made me feel like I’ve come to own living here. Maybe what made me decide was when it became very apparent to me that it would be damned near impossible to actually go and live somewhere else permanently. That’s something I’ve always thought about, I’ve always wanted to live somewhere warmer or more mountainous or close to the ocean or just generally more geographically interesting, but this is a world-class city that’s got everything you could possibly want in a city and it’s small enough and manageable enough and my family’s here and my friends. And I’ve got a band and a hockey team and a fundraiser event. There’s a lot of ties I’d have to cut to leave. Whether I’ve set those roots in Chicago, or whether Chicago has wrapped its roots around me, I guess is open to interpretation. But I’m here and this is home.

CFT: In all your travels or here in town, do people know what your tattoo is?

Brad: Most of the time people do. I feel since I got it, the Chicago Flag symbolism has become a lot more ubiquitous part of the local culture. The first place I lived in city limits was right on Harlem Avenue in Edison Park, literally on the city border with Niles. Across the street was Niles. So it was barely Chicago. The house we were renting had a flag pole out in front of it so we strung up a Chicago Flag and then a Pirate flag underneath it, because, you know, four bachelors living together in a big, crappy house. It was perfect. But we’d have people be like, “Why do you have the flag of Iran up there?” “What flag is that?” What do you mean what flag is that? Have you driven by City Hall or the DMV or the Cultural Center or anything? C’mon. It was either having to explain to people what the flag was, or having to justify flying it by understanding what it meant. You know, people that did recognize it as the Chicago Flag are like, “Oh, well, do you know what all the stuff means?” By the time I got to rattling off what each of the points of the stars mean people’d be like, “OK, OK, I get it. I didn’t know that, you’re cool, you’re local, you’re legit.”

CFT: I can’t remember all the points.

Brad: I can never remember all of them. I know them generally by themes of which go with which star.

Zoelle: I didn’t know the points had meanings.

CFT: They do, but they’re things like “agriculture”, “industriousness”, “honesty”.

Zoelle: Six Sigma!

Brad: The Fort Dearborn star is all the foundational qualities that the city was built on, like agriculture and transportation and stuff. The Fire one is…

Zoelle: Sure…

Brad: I only know most of this because I have that set of art prints on my kitchen wall. The Fire points are all about the qualities of perseverance that allowed Chicago to rebuild and thrive. The Columbia Exposition one is all of the flags that Chicago has existed under, so it’s like Virginia Territory, the Indiana Territory, Illinois Territory, even before that it was claimed by France at one point, and then the sixth point is when Illinois became a State, which I think was 1818. And then the fourth one, the 1933 Century of Progress , is all the mottos, like “The Convention City” and “I Will” and the Park District motto “Urbs in Horto*”. The one I keep meaning to look up is salubrity, because I have no idea what that means.

Zoelle: Salubrity?

CFT: I think that’s celery salt.

Zoelle: That’s what they put on the hot dogs.

Brad: That’s what they use to turn the relish neon-green, instead of just pickle-green.

CFT: And, where did you get your tattoo done?

Brad: My kitchen table.

CFT: OK.

Brad: I’m close friends with a tattoo artist who works at Private Ink in Libertyville, now. He was between shops at the time. He showed up and brought all his gear one day and did mine and did a friend who got the constellation of her Zodiac symbol on her wrist. Just hanging out in my kitchen.

Zoelle: [Holding her smart phone.] Salubrious: favorable to or promoting health. So there you go.

CFT: We’re a healthy-promoting city.

Brad: Good to know. We’re the healthy fourth fattest city in the country or whatever it is.

Molly (left) and Zoelle Fishman

At a New Year’s Day brunch, my friend John was talking about his next tattoo, which will get him up on this site when he gets it inked. “But in the meantime,” he said, “you should talk to my friends Molly and Zoelle and Brad. They all have Chicago tattoos and they’re the ones that do that hot dog tour.” John introduced us all via Facebook and after some scheduling, they were kind enough to invite me over to Zoelle’s place for lunch where we enjoyed a delicious submarine sandwich and then chatted. Zoelle and Molly Fishman are sisters and Brad Lash is their cousin (his tattoo will be the subject of the next post here). Where my usual interviews out in public are about two minutes, I talked to the three for twenty-five minutes overall, about their tattoos and the realities of hosting an unexpectedly popular charity event. So this one is just a bit longer than we’ve done so far.

CFT: So you guys have nearly matching Chicago hot dog tattoos. Tell me about your tattoos.

Zoelle: We decided to get them right after our Uncle Eliot passed away. He was a huge Chicago hot dog fan; Chicago food fan, really. I really like it as a symbol of the city, because you see them everywhere and Vienna Beef, obviously, is here. So that was really what prompted us to get them. And I think we all, all of us and the cousins talked about getting them at the same time and me and Molly were the only ones who did.

Molly: Also, I really wanted to get it because Eliot was super funny, that’s just one of the traits everyone knew about him, was that he was was hilarious and having a tattoo of a hot dog is kind of funny. It’s really weird when you go on vacation or something, where your tattoo shows. You know, here it’s so culturally relevant, but I went to Greece and no one understood it.

Brad: They don’t know what a hot dog is, there.

CFT: Do people in Chicago recognize what it is?

Molly: Yeah, I’ve often been stopped, mainly when I’m getting hot dogs, people are like, “Oh my God!”. I get in line at Hot Doug’s people are like, “No way!”

Brad: Like, “you must really like hot dogs!”

Molly: Yeah, and I’m like, I am standing in line with you for 45 minutes, so yeah.

Zoelle: Whenever I go to the Taste people always see it are like, “Woah!” or on the train, pretty much any time during the summer. Whenever it’s showing. Although, it has not gotten me any free hot dogs, I should point out.

CFT: It should.

Zoelle: It should, I know. Maybe it’s because it’s the actual Vienna [Beef] drawing.

Molly: You know, maybe we should try at Vienna Beef.

Zoelle: I know. I went to Gold Coast and they were like, “no”.

CFT: So that’s copied off the Vienna Beef sign.

Zoelle: It’s totally copied.

Photo by kyducks, CC BY-ND license

CFT: This is a perennial Chicago question: do you actually like the bright green relish? The fluorescent?

Molly: Yeah, I like either one.

Zoelle: Yeah, I like all kinds of relish. I’m a pickle fan in general.

Molly: Agreed.

CFT: Some people are very firm about their relish. I can’t taste the difference, but visually…

Molly: I think it’s just visual thing.

Zoelle: I’m definitely not picky about relish. I definitely will eat a Chicago-style hot dog over a hot dog with any other toppings. But I don’t always eat them like that. Sometimes just mustard.

Brad: What!?

Molly: Oh, really?

Zoelle: Really.

Molly: Maybe if you’re a BBQ or something.

CFT: Are you both life-long Chicagoans?

Zoelle: We grew up in the suburbs and I went away for college, but came back. And Molly’s been here the whole time.

Molly: I went to college here and just stayed here. We both live in the city now.

Zoelle: When I moved back here was right before Eliot passed away and the timing for my coming back to Chicago and really committing to stay here was kind of surprising the way our family history turned out at that moment. So, I felt it cemented the decision to get a Chicago tattoo and really be a Chicago native. I tried other places and they just didn’t work.

CFT: You guys do a tour of hot dog places in memory of your uncle?

Zoelle: We’ve done four. We basically get a bus… Carrie and Brad mostly do the organizing and Molly and I are sort of peripheral.

Molly: Brad could probably talk about how it started, the origins of it.

Brad: So my sister went out to Hawaii to teach right after graduating college and the first time she came back to the mainland was for a winter break. She was really jonesing for some real Chicago food. She also had a boyfriend with her and wanted to hang out with my uncle and show her boyfriend the city and so Eliot came with this grand idea, let’s drive around the city and we can show you all the neighborhoods and we can make it hot dog tour. So originally the idea was his. I only met up with them for three of the five stops. They just went in their own cars and drove around the city all day.

Zoelle: Wearing t-shirts with iron-on letters.

Brad: Yeah, I still have mine. It’s just a plain red t-shirt with the felt yellow writing. My sister ended up getting behind the grill at Byron’s and cooking up some hot dogs. It was their way to hang out, see the city, and spend time together. We had the idea to try and make it a charity event and we were going to do it the following summer or the next time Carrie could come back to the mainland. We ended up not being able to do it that summer and then the following winter Eliot passed away. So then the following summer once Carrie moved back, we decided to do it in his memory and do it as a charity fund raiser. Since he was a big music guy and a Blues guitarist, we decided to do music education charities. The first year was kind of loosely organized and we only had thirty people on the tour. We went to seven stands that first year. It took forever.

Zoelle: It was so hot.

Brad: The air conditioner was broken on the bus. It was, like, 95° out.

Zoelle: It was a really emotional experience. I remember my dad and Kim—Kim was Eliot’s wife when we were kids, they got divorced but Kim always kept in touch—it was a really hard thing to do the first time, especially for them. To have the humor and the experience, but it was really part of grieving as well. So the first time was special in that regard.

Brad: It was a lot of family, it was a lot of Eliot’s friends. You talk about the grieving process, but through the hot dog tour we sort of grieved as he lived. He was always like, “Let’s eat, let’s joke around, let’s have fun.” Everything was a joke or a game with him. So the first tour embodied that. People had so much fun that it’s grown to the point of unwieldiness now. We get Facebook messages from total strangers that have found the website or the Facebook group somehow and want to come on the next tour. It’s kind of lost it’s meaning a little bit as it’s grown bigger.

Zoelle: This last year we had two buses. Seventy-five or eighty people.

Molly: It was crazy.

Zoelle: It was insane. There’s beer drinking on the bus. There’s just general rowdiness.

Brad: We got local breweries to donate product. We got some of the local sports teams to donate raffle items. And it’s sort of made that jump to a real fund raiser event. As the tour’s gotten bigger, we’ve been trying to get smaller with the charities we donate to. The first two years we did the Old Town School of Folk Music. They’re great, but they don’t need the small amount of money that we’re going to provide. The third year we did Rock for Kids and this year we did Girls Rock Chicago whose, you know, their total operating budget was five figures. And a low five figures. So the money we were able to give them really did make more of an impact. But the amount of work that went into just the planning and logistics and everything for trying to raise even that small amount of money, it ended up being essentially a second full time job for me for three or four months last year.

Zoelle: It’s a lot of organizing.

Brad: We’re not really sure what we’re going to do with it this year, if we’re even going to keep it up or if we’re going to try something different or if we’re going to try and scale it back.

Zoelle: But there’s lots of good pictures online.

Brad: The mission remains the same. Live life and enjoy it like Eliot did.

CFT: It sounds like you guys need to make the decision, is this a family and friends annual get-together or is this charity fund raiser? You know, awesome to have to make that decision, that both of them are viable.

Brad: It’s like we’ve created something that’s now gotten bigger than us and our family and the question is do we want that responsibility?

Molly: It’s kind of weird how big it got. I was at work and somebody showed up in a Hot Dog Tour t-shirt and I was like, “Oh wow, you were on the Hot Dog Tour?” and they were like, “yeah, were you?”. And I’m like, “yeah” and they were like, “how do you know about it?” And I was like, “well, my last name’s Fishman.” It was one of Carrie’s friends and they were on the other bus and I never saw them.

Brad: Carrie brought friends she used to teach with and they had so much fun that they brought in all these other people that we don’t even know—they’re friends of friends of friends. They’re great people, but…

Molly: It’s cool, but at the same time it’s kind of difficult to manage.

Brad: We’ll see, we’re going to have to decide. Probably kind of soon.

CFT: Cool. So, just a technical question about the tattoos—where did you get them done?

Zoelle: At Revolution Tattoo on Western. Max. He had done a couple other hot dogs.

Molly: And he had one. His brother had a hot dog tattoo. They weren’t like what we have where it’s the logo, it was like a hot dog astronaut or something weird like that. Shooting lasers out of its eyes.

Brad: I had Mike draw me up an idea for a hot dog riding an El car, like it was a rodeo, so the El car was bent like it was bucking. He has the art still, but it would have been a half-sleeve, to do it to the level of detail that he’d drawn it.

Molly: You should do it!

Molly (left) and Zoelle Fishman

Molly Fishman’s hot dog tattoo closeup. The E is for Eliot.

Zoelle Fishman’s hot dog tattoo closeup.

We were lunching at River North’s Slurping Turtle (with, let us brag, the awesome artist who designed the restaurant’s turtle logo/mascot) and couldn’t help but notice our server’s brand-spanking new tattoo.

CFT: You just said before I started recording that your tattoo is three days old?

Topher: Three days old. I’ve always lived around Chicago, parents are die-hard Cubs fans, the whole everything, so I just moved here in August and that was kind of like my leaving the nest, so to speak. So I came here, kind of struggled a little bit with school and balancing everything out. But I succeeded, in more ways than one. So it was kind of like, I love Chicago for all these reasons, and now I have more of a reason to. So I came up with this idea of Black Flag), one of my favorite hardcore bands, they have the uneven bars, it’s supposed to look like a waving black flag. So I was like, what if I did that with the Chicago Flag?

CFT: And the laurels underneath?

Topher: That was kind of something that my tattoo artist, she was just like “I want something to more round it out, to make it look more like a traditional tattoo”. It was just kind of something to give it a little bit of a framework.

CFT: The flag can rest on its laurels.

[Groans from everyone at the table.]

Topher: Right, exactly.

CFT: Where did you get it done?

Topher: I got it done at Speakeasy Tattoo on North in Wicker Park.

CFT: Who did it there?

Topher: Jennifer Trok.

CFT: Jennifer! She’s awesome.

Topher: Yeah, she’s really cool. I was very happy with her.

CFT: Now, you’ve only had it three days, but one of my questions is usually, “do people know what it is?” How’s the reaction been?

Topher: The reaction to the Chicago Flag has been good. The Black Flag thing kind of gets lost on some people, but that’s OK.

CFT: Oh, he knew what it was instantly.

Topher: Awesome. Yeah, that’s what I was going for. My parents, I get a lot of my love for Chicago from my dad, but my dad’s totally like conservative, business, salesman kind of guy. This is my first tattoo where it’s more visible, you know, so he was like, “hey, we need to talk about this”. And then we had this huge lecture. But then he was like, “well, it’s a really cool design, how’d you come up with it?” It was so funny, it was a complete turn-around. Yeah, it was awesome.

CFT: So cool. Thanks a lot.